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Thread: Iraqi artists depict anger over Abu Ghraib

  1. #31
    Emperor Napoleon
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    Though I guess it does make sense in a deserter supporter kind of way.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I fail to understand how not enlisting compares with deserting? As to the whole "sign up or shut up" argument you're not changing my mind on the issue. The armed forces are a service for ALL tax payers. I am a tax payer. Just like firefighters, ambulance drivers, police, etc. are performing a service and paid for by public funding. Using your logic Pina unless you are willing to be a cop you have no right to complain about crime. Unless you become a volunteer fireman don't expect the fire department to ever come and put out a fire lest one should break out in your home. The examples could go on and on... How do you feel about William Jefferson Clinton going to England instead of serving in VietNam?

  2. #32
    Inactive Member Piña's Avatar
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    GL

    Not enlisting compares with deserting in this way. When someone fervently calls for others to put themselves at mortal risk in service to their country to kill others and refuses to make the same sacrifice themselves though the opportunity exists to do so then those people are at best hypocrites and at worst cowards.

    Bush put on the false mantle of a serviceperson by enlisting in a ?champagne? squadron in the National Guard where he was able to wear a cool uniform and learn to fly at taxpayer expense full in the knowledge that he would never actually be put in harms way. His daddy?s money would see to that.

    His contempt for the military was further illustrated when he just up and walked away when something more interesting came along and he didn?t even have the character to fulfill the little obligation he had signed up for.

    You also attempted to put on an american warrior disguise by making extremist warlike noises without taking on warlike consequences while calling for others to take the very real risks of service in the military.

    The fact that you support someone who crapped on the honor of those who have and do serve is part and parcel of the ChickenHawk mentality that is so pervasive in the upper echelon of the current executive branch and the loudest voices in the neo-con rank and file.

    Your argument where you mistakenly say that I would prohibit criticism of public servants unless you are willing to serve in their stead is really a non-argument in that I served the public (my country) and put myself at risk to that end and I have never said that you shouldn?t criticize anyone. I have said that those who hide behind warrior words and posturing without taking on the risk they call others to take should crawl back into their bomb shelters and quake in fear while people of real character get the job done. I took the risk, Jumper took the risk and millions of others have taken the risks. I am a member of the group who have stepped up a group that includes the police, firefighters, and the military. You and your hero have not.

    As for the distraction argument that Clinton didn?t serve. The biggest difference between bush and Clinton is that Clinton had the spine to take an educational deferment in keeping with his beliefs. He didn?t try and disguise himself as a hawk but stood up for what he believed in and took the heat for it. Just as Kerry served his country, proudly and well, and when he found that the Vietnam war was bullshit stood up in front of the entire country and proclaimed his opposition to the war.

    I guess it boils down to the difference between vertebrate and invertebrate life forms.

    I know you think that I despise you. I don?t really. There are things about you that I like and respect. But there are things that you do that I do despise and not owning up to the mistakes you have made is one of the things that keep me from respecting the entirety of you.

  3. #33
    Emperor Napoleon
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    There are things about you that I like and respect. But there are things that you do that I do despise
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Likewise.

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